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ghosts haunting history (Read 3790 times)
Marie
Ex Member



ghosts haunting history
08/22/06 at 10:20:59
 
Just watched "V for vendetta", which offers an interesting twist on how ghosts, or rather their ideas, keep haunting history.   It seems indeed ideas are bulletproof and resurface over and over again.  Most of the times,  the phantoms I think of are those of women.  This morning, its the voice of Al-Khansa, Arab poet of the 7th century:
 
  Quote:
AL-Khansa’s Lament for Her Brother

In the evening remembrance keeps me awake,
and in the morning I am worn out by the overwhelming disaster that has befallen us.
In the case of Sakhr, and what youth is there like Sakhr to deal with a day of warring and skillful spear-thrust?


And to deal with tenacious opponents when they transgress,
so that he can assert the right of someone on whom oppression has fallen?
I have not seen his like in the extent of the disaster caused By his death, either among djinn or among men.
Truly strong against the vicissitudes of fortune and decisive in affairs, showing no confusion.


At times when people were suffering hardship most generous
In his endeavors towards those who sought help or towards
Neighbors or to his wife.
Many was the guest who arrived by night or the man who was
Seeking protection, peoplewhose hearts were alarmed at
Every sound.
He treated such people kindly and made them safe, so that
Their state was free from every pressing need.


Ah, O Sakhr, I shall never forget you until I part from my
Soul and my grave is cut.
The rising of the sun reminds of Sakhr, and I remember
Him every time the sun sets.


But for the multitude of people around me weeping for their
Kin I would have killed myself.
All the time I see the woman grieving for her dead child
And the woman wailing over the death of her husband on a day
Of misfortune.
Both of them weep for their lost ones in the evening of the
Day disaster befell them or after that.
Yet they are not weeping for the like of my brother; but I
Console myself with the example of those who bear grief
Patiently.


On the day that I parted from Abu Hassan Sakhr I said
Farewell to my pleasures and my cheer.
Alas for my sorrow for him; alas for the sorrow of my mother!
Does he really spend the morning in the grave and spend the
Evening in it?

 
Anyway, in the Boston Globe, there was this article on another ghost which I found quite interesting:
 
Quote:
Jabotinsky's ghost
Beyond the war in Lebanon lies the ultimate question of Israel's coexistence with a Palestinian state. To confront it, Ehud Olmert knows he must break with the political tradition into which he was born.
By Geoffrey Wheatcroft | August 13, 2006

EVERY DAY BRINGS more grim news of the conflict in Lebanon and Israel, with a mounting death toll from Katyushas and F-16s. But Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, knows that beyond this conflict with Hezbollah is another, still more existential one with the Palestinians, and that this war in Lebanon only postpones-though it makes more urgent-the deal he must one day make.

Olmert also knows better than most that in the background is the climax of a different long struggle, more than 80 years old now, for the soul of Zionism. It is a struggle in which he-much more than Ariel Sharon, his immediate predecessor and the father of the strategy of unilateral withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank-has an acute personal interest.

Like his foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, Olmert was born into the political tradition known as Revisionist Zionism, founded by Vladimir Jabotinsky. A brilliant and intensely controversial figure, Jabotinsky split the Zionist movement in the 1920s, preaching a ``Greater Israel," with a Jewish majority outweighing the Arab population, to be won by force and guarded, in his famous phrase, by an ``Iron Wall." In the words of the former State Department adviser Aaron David Miller, Olmert is ``one of Likud's princes from a prominent Revisionist family." And if Olmert is a prince, Livni is a princess: Both are children of the Irgun, the armed rightists who followed Jabotinsky and fought both British and Arabs. Livni is one of the few prominent Israelis who can still quote from ``Jabo's" works, and her father's gravestone bears a map of that Greater Israel.

Jabotinsky did not live to see the creation of the Jewish state-which was not, in any case, the one he had dreamed of. And indeed the situation today is paradoxical. In his lifetime, Jabotinsky's appeal to his followers was his apparent realism and rejection of compromise, rather than the evasions and denial of other Zionists. As it turned out, Zionism found, like any other political movement, that realism itself means compromise, and that it may be better to accept what you can get rather than hold out for what you want. It will be a supreme irony if the ultimate compromise-and the final abandonment of Jabotinsky's ideal-is made by his direct ideological heirs.

. . .

No Israeli needs to be told about this astonishing man, whose shadow falls across the country to this day-his legacy is found in the names of sports clubs as well as the platforms of political parties-but even among those Americans who count themselves friends of Israel there are many who have scarcely heard of Jabotinsky. Born in Odessa in 1880, he became an ardent Zionist as a young man, and an immensely prolific journalist, historian, and novelist who wrote and spoke compellingly in Russian, Yiddish, German, Italian, Hebrew, French, and English. His translations (including the Sherlock Holmes stories) helped create the modern Hebrew language, and there are still Israelis who abhor his political legacy but admire his literary genius.

Before the Great War he had proclaimed Zionism not merely a political creed but a psychological remedy, to cure the Jews of the ``mutilations of history." In his blunt way, he said that degrading exile had made the Jews into ``Yids"; now they should become Hebrews again. In an article from 1911 entitled ``Against Excessive Apology," he admonished the Jews to stand up straight, to stop cringing and making excuses, and to tell the goyim ``to go to hell."

During that war, Jabo and his comrade Joseph Trumpeldor helped raise a Jewish Legion among the settlers in Palestine to fight with the British and drive out the Turks. While the campaign was underway in the fall of 1917, the London government (having also made inconveniently contradictory promises to the Arabs) issued the Balfour Declaration favoring the creation of a national home for the Jews, and after the war the British took charge of Palestine. Violence broke out almost immediately between Jewish settler and indigenous Arab, with the British ineffectually standing between, and continued until the ignominious British departure in 1948, not to say ever since.

In 1920, Trumpeldor died a hero defending his settlement against Arab attacks; three years later Jabotinsky founded Betar, whose name was a Hebrew acronym paying tribute to Trumpeldor. This militant youth movement was intended to instill discipline and pride, and maybe-so some Betarim hoped-to prepare for ``armed struggle." They marched in uniform, they forswore alcohol, and they kept fit. Their athletic tradition as well as their name survives in the Jerusalem Betar soccer club, which by no accident Olmert supports.

What distinguished Jabotinsky wasn't an enthusiasm for sports, but his forthrightness, or his intellectual honesty. From Theodor Herzl onwards, other Zionists had never been clear in public-or even in their own minds-about their objectives and how they could be accomplished. Herzl said more than a little optimistically that the existing inhabitants of Palestine would welcome the Zionists bringing progress and civilization.

What the Balfour Declaration had promised-at a time when Jews were still less than a 10th of the population of the Holy Land-was a homeland, not a state, and the mainstream Zionists under Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, were very cautious about using that word. Although they naturally wanted Jewish immigration to the land, they were cautious also when it came to speaking of numbers or majorities.

Not so Jabo. Soon after founding Betar, he proclaimed the Revisionist Zionist organization in opposition to Weizmann, with a platform of admirable clarity: ``The revival of the Jewish state with a Jewish majority on both sides of the Jordan." ``When I was a child," Livni has said, ``all I ever heard about was that we Jews have the right to a state on both sides of the Jordan." But Jabotinsky knew very well that the Jews would not be welcomed: ``The native population, civilized or uncivilized, have always stubbornly resisted the colonists," he said, ``and it made no difference whether the colonists behave decently or not."

For that reason it was ``utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs," Jabotinsky wrote, and the Zionists must be ready to use physical force: An ``Iron Wall" was needed to protect the enclave while they established a majority as quickly as possible.

. . .

All of this dismayed Weizmann. In a phrase still apt today, he reminded his fellow Zionists that Palestine was ``a sensitive world nerve," and he called the Revisionist program ``midsummer madness," wanted by ``nobody except a few partisans of Jabo." Why raise ``this bogey" of a state with a majority, Weizmann asked? ``Why arouse our enemies?"

He went further. Today only the bitterest enemy of Israel would call its government fascist, but that was just the accusation once made-by other Zionists-against the Revisionists. In 1929, Weizmann even told a friend, the New York lawyer Morris Rothenberg, that the Jewish extremists displayed ``Hitlerism in its worst possible form." (This was before Hitler came to power, let alone showed what horrors he would inflict on the European Jews, and Weizmann would scarcely have used this phrase later. But it was startling even then.)

For his part, although he shared much of the rhetoric of the contemporary radical right, Jabo always repudiated the fascist label. He deplored political assassination, and he said that ``it must be hateful for any Jew to think that the rebirth of a Jewish State should ever be linked with such an odious suggestion as the removal of non-Jewish citizens."

For the last 10 years of his life, Jabotinsky was banned from Palestine by the British authorities. He traveled the world, speaking, organizing, and warning of the approaching catastrophe in Europe, before he died of a heart attack at a Betar camp near New York in 1940.

But his soul went marching on. He had founded one more group, the Irgun Zvei Leumi, which turned toward increasingly violent means to make Palestine ungovernable and force the British out. In July 1946 the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 people, British, Arab, and Jewish, a deed whose 60th anniversary was celebrated recently with the unveiling of a plaque by Irgun veterans. The following year, in reprisal for the execution of Irgun men, they hanged two kidnapped British soldiers, and in 1948 they shot dozens of Palestinian villagers. The leader of the Irgun was Menachim Begin, Jabotinsky's sometime disciple, then rival, and finally successor, who never extenuated what he and his comrades had done, or apologized excessively.

As the birth of Israel approached, something close to civil war broke out. The Irgun had chartered a ship they called the Altalena, Jabotinsky's old pen name, to run guns, but by the time it made its journey the Jewish state had been born and David Ben-Gurion, its first prime minister, demonstrated vigorously that there would be only one legitimate source of power by ordering his forces to open fire on the ship. To this day, ``Altalena" is a fighting word in Israel. Depending on who you are, it means a brave display of authority or-as Olmert, the son of an Irgun gun-runner, and Livni, whose father was another Irgun leader, were brought up to believe-a bitter betrayal.

Shortly after the creation of the new state, Begin visited America, and was fiercely denounced in a letter to The New York Times from 28 eminent Jewish liberals, among them Sidney Hook, Hannah Arendt, and Albert Einstein. Begin was a ``terrorist, right-wing chauvinist," they said, whose movement was ``closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy, and social appeal to Nazi and Fascist parties."

It seemed that those words had been heeded. For more than a quarter-century-a time Olmert and Livni must still remember-Revisionists, Betarim, old Irgun hands, grouped round the Herut party, were not merely excluded from all power but well nigh proscribed and anathematized by the Labor establishment. In 1977, both Weizmann and Einstein must have turned in their graves when Begin, now leader of the Likud block which had absorbed Herut, at last came to power. Likud went on almost to replace Labor as the habitual party of government, under Begin, Yitzhak Shamir (once leader of Lehi, a group even more extreme than the Irgun), and Benjamin Netanyahu, whose father had been Jabotinsky's secretary.

. . .

With Olmert and Livni in power, it could seem that Jabo's legacy has triumphed. But has it? Apart from his dazzling intellectual gifts, and what even enemies conceded was a leonine personality, what had seemed most attractive about Jabo was his honesty and realism. Today it is his inheritors who have been forced to accept a new reality.

As Tzipi Livni says, the old Revisionist creed of a Greater Israel ``had no provisions for a Palestinian state, but instead envisioned our living together with the Palestinians in one state." That was on Jabotinsky's assumption that enough Jews would immigrate to create a permanent majority, on both sides of the Jordan. Now the Israelis face the prospect that they will quite soon be a minority even between the Jordan and the sea.

And so today's realism is very different from Jabo's. For all his ferocious response in Lebanon, Olmert knows that, and so does Livni. ``If we want to preserve a Jewish majority and still remain a democracy," she has said, ``giving up the territories is the only solution." As the nightly news reminds us, Israel is still in no mood for excessive apology. All the same, when Livni says, ``My goal is to give the Jewish people a home, and that's why I must accept a Palestinian state. I had a choice, and I chose two states for two peoples," she is saying goodbye to her father's dream, and to Jabotinsky's.

Geoffrey Wheatcroft is the author of ``The Controversy of Zion: Jewish Nationalism, the Jewish State, and the Unresolved Jewish Dilemma," which won a National Jewish Book Award.

 
 
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mark
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #1 - 08/22/06 at 11:06:20
 
Interesting topic Smiley
This is true, Ghost haunts us today, they live within us, and we inherit them and to their guts we are bond.
Today English soul is being torn and out of its gaps and cracks ghosts and Spirits are forced out as they are cursed and darned, and slowly but surely a irritation sets in and we are subjected to a interesting conundrum, a mystical riddle that today burdens the spirits, the emotional state, and out of it arises the ghosts of the diggers and levelers, you can instantly watch a English man and you can tell what ghost have taken and claimed his soul by seeing what comes out of his mouth.
 
We have diggers and Levelers even here on this forum…These are archetypes that make their frames visible as words and sentences are arranged in a fractal like form, figure, order, arrange and we can see how it controls and guides consciousness and orients and orders our moral stance.
It’s is the invisible engine on which Parliamentary democracy unfolds it apocalyptic picture.
 
200 years before Marx coined the famous words “the opium of the mass” It had already become the cornerstone of English body politics by which the principalities and divine including King and Pope were in one step chucked out by the will of the singularity or the commonality of the sovereign.  
 
Today the whole world falls under the shadow of the 17th century.
It is said Britain had no revolution, it had nothing like the French or the American Revolution, but what it did became the ghost that were to haunt all modern revolutions.
And...Just like the Ghost of the infection ridden Marat haunts all the soul of French, behind the Ghost of Jean Paul Marat hovers the spirits of the Levelers and Diggers.. hovers the spirits of the Levelers and Diggers..
Today this revolution has hit a rock bottom….and England is slipping, slipping from what made it the spirit of modernity and modern history.
 
But Ghost are not real and once we see this we have an interesting problem.
That is why I find it worthwhile to muse over insight into what happens when prophesies fails, like what happens when God went Pooof, A being that went absconding out of reality…A being that has stopped speaking …whose silence is more deafening and threatening…in this contest ghost leads us to Apocalypse.
 
The Historical 'The Digger Songs'
Levellers and Diggers (by Gerard Winstanley)
http://www.diggers.org/audio/diggersong.rm
 
 
 
And we have the Ghost of 'Shabbatai Tzvi'. and the Donmeh's
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Marie
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #2 - 08/22/06 at 12:24:12
 
I wonder how history would have remember Marat if he had not been assassinated.  Did you know it is rumored that he was behind the execution of Lavoisier?
 
I think the Brits never fully dealt with the fundamental contradiction of a democratic, egalitarian society and a monarchy of divine right.  And by extension, the countries of the Commonwealth.  But the same is true for India with its cast system.  Maybe it takes the kind of major social turmoil brought by Revolutions to bring major changes. It certainly look like the best way of getting rid for good of born and bred powercrazed people is to chop some heads.   Recently I read "The ghost of King Leopold" which recount the reign of terror of Belgium in Congo (which inspired Conrad' Heart of Darkness".    This did not  increased my level of sympathy for Monarchy.  Now, there is another interesting for you,  Roger Casement, initially a British Diplomat of Irish origin, who, after fighting oppression in Africa and South America, turned its eyes to the plight of Ireland and was hanged by the UK as a traitor.      Being a French minority living under her Majesty shadow, I feel left out the natural movement of history.  I think it is somehow a natural aspiration to want to get rid of Kings, Queens and Nobles, who are nothing more, than inbred kleptocrats.    
 
On the other hand,  some countries which got rid of their monarchies felt into another kind of tyranny, ie the totalitarism of China and Russia.    
 
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mark
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #3 - 08/22/06 at 12:54:56
 
I get a strange feeling Marie, may be its something to do with my ancestry, but I do feel (in today’s immediate context) that the monarchy today is the sanest of voice in Britain. Smiley
 
...and don’t forget those wonderful soapoperic tales of palace intrigues which has become a way of life for us, something we cannot do away with…It’s the very source of British Humor and its Ironic cartoonism…what happens when we loose all those Healthy traits.
 
I would give William his Chance...absolutely.
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Marie
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #4 - 08/22/06 at 14:58:42
 
Hello Mark,
 
 
Actually, I read about the Queen talking on climate warming and I know that Prince Charles is concerned about organic farming and sustainability.
So there is an important nuance to make here. Nonetheless monarchy is something which runs against my grain. But as a cultural icon of the UK, the Brits are attached to the institution,  it is in their right to preserve it.   For me, it has been an issue , when entering the civil service, to swear to serve the Queen, or even that public land is called Crown land. But then, the British Monarchy was imposed on the First Nations and the French minority, so I have a different perspective.    
 
In Canada, we have the Red Tunic Ghost, its first incarnation being the Red uniforms of the British Army, and now the uniform of the Mounties which are upholding the social order in most of the Canadian territory in the name of Her Majesty. It's armed force of the capitalist order imposed on Natives. Here two cases:
Quote:
Last Stand of the Lubicon
Dawn Hill
The Lubicon are a small band of Cree in Northern Alberta. They have been struggling to settle their land claim for over fifty years. The Lubicon were missed when the government Indian agent signed treaty 8 with area Indian bands, in 1899. The Lubicon were recognized as a distinct band in 1939. The Indian agent C.P. Schmidt recommended a reserve be established between Little Buffalo and Lubicon Lake. This reserve has yet to be realized. Perhaps the federal government wavered when oil was discovered in the area around 1940.

In January 1989 the federal government offered a final take-it-or-leave-it deal, which the Lubicon refused to consider because it gave them no voice in area development or enough money to become self-sufficient. The $45 million dollar compensation would not begin to cover the expenses of building a new community in the Lubicon area. The Lubicon also shutdown oil wells operating in their area. At the same time the federal government poured over 500 million into the development of logging. Diashowa, a large Japanese Pulp and Paper Co., the main beneficiary of McKnight, completed their large plant in 1990.

To date approximately $400 million dollars per year has been extracted in oil from Lubicon land.

In 1988 Bill McKnight, minister of Indian Affairs was awarded the "Western Diversification Portfolio" by Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. Millions of federal dollars were poured into the oil and logging industry in Northern Alberta. Corporations such as Diashowa, Norcon, and Petro-Canada received grants worth millions by McKnight. Premier Donald Getty was quietly leasing out land in Northern Alberta the size of Great Britain. This included territory claimed by Lubicons. The Lubicon charged McKnight with "conflict of interest" since he was "supposed" to be the "trustee" of the Lubicon and all Natives. The Courts system stonewalled any attempts by the Lubicon to either settle the claim or stop the rapid development. They withdrew their 50 year old claim and erected a blockade to stop the oil and logging in their territory. Five days later the armed RCMP tore down their blockade and arrested 27 people. Two days later a deal was struck between Premier Getty and Chief Bernard Ominayak. the "Grimshaw Accord" promised the Lubicon a 95 square mile reserve and compensation. The federal government refused to sign or negotiate the terms in the Grimshaw Accord.

Diashowa had initially agreed to stay out of the Lubicon territory until the land claim was settled. However, in November of 1990 two logging companies contracted by Diashowa, began to log on lands claimed by the Lubicon. In fact, they started to log through Chief Ominayak's trap lines.

On November 24, Buchanan logging camp was mysteriously set afire. Approximately $20,000 worth of damage was done. Within days Little Buffalo was crawling with RCMP officers. Thirteen Lubicons were charged with arson, and minor offenses. Hector Whitehead claimed the RCMP prodded and frisked him during questioning. They also told him if he reported them, they would, "smoke him."

These Lubicons are charged are pleading "immunity." Their court dates are April 29, May 6, May 29. Ex-Chief Walter Whitehead (charged with arson, mischief) told me: "… even if they lock me up, lock all 13 of us up, they won't stop us, because we are right, and they're just puppets for politicians, doing their dirty work. My children will fight, and their children. They can't keep locking us up." (January 21, 1991)

The Lubicon Chief has requested those interested in supporting the Lubicon write: Premier Getty, Minister of Indian Affairs Tom Siddon, Diashowa, Petro-Canada, and P.M. Mulroney. For more information please write: Friends of the Lubicon, 94 Pinewood Ave. Toronto, Ont. M6C 2V1

Dawn Hill is a Six Nations Mohawk, and a Ph.D. Anthropology Candidate at McMaster University, corresponding from Little Buffalo, Alberta

 
and  
 
Quote:
Dog Slaughter Inquiry Debated in Canadian Parliament

Back in the 1950s to late 60s and early 70s, the Canadian government ordered many dog teams killed. It has been suggested that up to 20,000 dogs were destroyed across what is known today as Nunavut and Nunavik. Inuit leaders allege that this was done in order to "encourage" families living [and sometimes starving] out on the land to settle in developing communities so the government could "take better care" of them. To this day that act, commonly referred to as "the dog slaughters" has remained a long-festering wound, the source of much bitterness and sadness.  

Makivik Corporation, established in 1978 to represent the political, social, and economic rights of the Nunavik Inuit, has been attempting to have the governments of Quebec and Canada address this action in the form of a public inquiry. In January 2005 a documentary film on the killings, "Echo of the Last Howl", produced by Makivik, premiered at a meeting in Kuujjuaq to an audience of Nunavik residents including elders whose dogs were slaughtered, regional organizations, Quebec and federal government officials and the media. This gathering was another attempt to get provincial and federal governments to undertake a formal inquiry into the extermination of a significant component of Nunavik Inuit traditions and identity.

In addition to the documentary, this latest Makivik attempt included the creation of a brief entitled "The Slaughtering of Nunavik Qimmiit" which was submitted to government officials. The Inuit Sled Dog International (ISDI) received a copy of this twenty-seven page, ten-thousand word document and Makivik has granted permission to reproduce it in its entirety, roughly divided into three parts, appearing in this and in the next two issues of The Fan Hitch.

The reaction of the governments of Canada and the province of Quebec to repeated requests (since 1999) for a public inquiry had been to deny them.  It appears their response to this 2005 effort is different. A March 11, 2005 article in the Nunatisaq News  reports that the Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Committee in Canada's parliament is discussing the issue. While the Director-general of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police's aboriginal police services branch, Kevin Vickers, was willing to apologize if the RCMP did anything wrong, he said there was no evidence of any systematic slaughtering of sled dogs and that, according to the article, "The killing of Inuit sled dogs was a legitimate part of the RCMP's job, meant to protect communities from [ravaging dog] disease and danger."  Vickers’ testimony was said to have been based on interviews of six RCMP officers who were in the North during the dog slaughter era. However, other police paperwork from northern detachments at that time has been destroyed. The article went on to say that Vickers "admitted that his presentation was based on incomplete records."

http://homepage.mac.com/puggiq/V7N2/V7N2News.html

 
Most hunter-gatherer societies, because they dont accumulate capital, are egalitarians by nature.  
I dont see a logical argument for the legitimacy of priviledges, both legal and material, based on birth right.   This applies both to mornarchy or Indian cast system.   But I would like for you to share your point of view.   I'll work very hard to keep an open mind.  
 
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #5 - 08/22/06 at 17:17:03
 
Hi Marie.
First I am just thinking loud…which means I don’t have an readymade answers and which also mean that I am open to explore the topic in all possible manner and that all such explorations will be simply attempts at and not definite conclusions, or a final wrapping up….what ever is offered is just an honest attempt to realistically look into what is it that is possible and with what and to what extent we are duping ourselves into believing things which have no reality outside ones wishful thinking…I certainly take it as an opportunity to learn, be taught, gain knowledge and to see how things really are and have I really understood it and then may be how they could possibly be if they could be other then what they are. I am also aware that Ideological coloring is unavoidable.
 
Ok Let me take a shot.
I think legitimacy derives its logic from social consensus, a group can block membership and it can do it using what ever commonality pattern it wishes to identify itself with…so the Logic lies in the internal choices they make, In fact after lots of thinking and trying to find some perspective which is meaningful in itself and at the same time value neutral and transcends conventional reality, I only ended up wondering whether the sort of approach/logic is not itself artificial, but also inherently exclusive and given to violence and force.
I certainly feel that how one decides to view it will in one sense or another impact ones relationship with others, and affect ones commitment to integrity, as well as ones attitude toward morality and all this will to some extent distort ones perception of truth.
 
One can certainly argue that there is no solid grounds to derive ones material and legal rights solely on ones situational circumstances of birth; and the status and privileges thus acquired should be confiscated by some sort of legal force, and having done that one is forcibly reduced to a uniformity, a common minimum and each then struggles his way upwards from there, and who ever does well is rewarded…but that sort of thing can only happen in a community which has already made an internal commitment to how it should live and has concluded for themselves and having concluded have acted upon so that very concept of private property is totally and completely abolished, including marriage, matrimonial, monogamy and childbirth and ownership including naming, surnaming etcetera etcetera are also modified 'ground up' knowing perfectly well ones propensity to own, to take charge, to hoard and favor etc etc.
 
On the other hand one can argue that there are infact solid grounds to derive ones material and legal privileges solely by the situational and conditional circumstances of ones birth.
I mean one can certainly argue on scientific grounds and on the ground reality of natural selection that it is very natural to position ones offsprings to inherit ones positional advantage, that is both material and by the value of that material, a social.
...thus one is already positioning ones offsprings in a head start position and so from the outset favoring better breaks and opportunity to not just consolidate and maintain the original given advantage, but at the same time even guarantying freedom explore ways to grow and expand and thus gain a even more advantageous position then what his accidental placing of fore advantage by birth had already placed him in. In such a situation it is natural for him to enjoy the various advantages such a positions holds for him from the outset.
 
I think if we can tackle these two Gog and Megogs one can then settle with some certainty on how to proceed, or even the eventual carrying out of such deeds such as chopping each others head and then setting a mighty paramilitary force to monitor and implement our realities once and for all.  
In both cases the only common factor I see is that come what may, one ultimately has to have some sort of legal force, and Power (and power is a very slippery subject to define) one ultimately has to have some sort of legal force, and Power to implement rights and means to define execute and settle offences in its favor.
 
Now you can understand why I don’t see any easy way out...?
My own personal view favors Localization and diversity rather then one single universal Globalizing monocultural monolith and I do put my faith on the potentials and possibilities of human mimicry and its ability to imitate strategies that favors and promises growth and power and which may and often does end up seeding conflict and wars.  
And this is where religious sense comes into play, a inner religious sense and what ever encourages and leads to it…and the various risks such a position involves one into.
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Marie
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #6 - 08/23/06 at 09:32:29
 
Quote from mark on 08/22/06 at 17:17:03:

Now you can understand why I don’t see any easy way out...?
My own personal view favors Localization and diversity rather then one single universal Globalizing monocultural monolith and I do put my faith on the potentials and possibilities of human mimicry and its ability to imitate strategies that favors and promises growth and power and which may and often does end up seeding conflict and wars.  
And this is where religious sense comes into play, a inner religious sense and what ever encourages and leads to it…and the various risks such a position involves one into.

 
I tend to believe in localization and diversity.  But somehow, I think there must be a way for humanity to reach a moral conscensus which can be turn into international laws.
 
For exemple, while differing on the metaphysical explanations and creation myths, most religions agrees on compassion, on worshipping, if not God, at least the Creation, on the value of human life.   We see convergences of secular and religious movements, for exemple, on Fair trade.   I think from those conscensus we can derive moral constraints which can be internalized.  For exemple, recycling is adopted by more people, while before it was the choice of some green extremists.   Same with frugality, a necessity of the poors but a choice for the Westerners.  
 
I am not sure that Darwinist evolution makes sense when it comes to social constructs.    We end up with situations when the untalented offsprings of the powerfuls get positions they are incompetent to fill while many gifted ones rot at the bottom of the barrel.    There is a need for a mix model of socialism and capitalism.   Tools, buildings, books, all fruits of the human labor can make the case for property. But what about the limited ressources provided by nature: water, land, soil, air, forest?    We all depend on them and need them for our survival, and so all the millions of other species sharing the planet with us.   It does not make sense that one individual, in the name of property rights and profits, can legally go clear-cut the last stand of trees in mature forest in a watershed providing water for a whole village, hence jeopardizing the life of all the living creatures and the human as well.    
 
Quote:
I think legitimacy derives its logic from social consensus, a group can block membership and it can do it using what ever commonality pattern it wishes to identify itself with…so the Logic lies in the internal choices they make, In fact after lots of thinking and trying to find some perspective which is meaningful in itself and at the same time value neutral and transcends conventional reality, I only ended up wondering whether the sort of approach/logic is not itself artificial, but also inherently exclusive and given to violence and force.

 
Here is what I see:
  The system is set-up now that people in communities have little say anymore on what happens to them. Somebody in a air-conditioned office in New York will decide of the market price of coffee, never facing the workers barely earning, in the best conditions,  12$ a day.  People making decision do not live in the same sphere than people living with the results.   Anyway, here a beatiful poem by Janisse Ray quite fitting what you wrote about localization and diversity:
 
Quote:
Before the 2003 U.S. Attack on Iraq


Let them have their oil.

Let them have their mosques and holy books,

and the sun gleaming on the face of a woman

kneeling for the fifth time to pray.

Let her have the baby in her arms.

Let her bring from market the lentils, the lamb,

the bouquet of cilantro, piquant and exciting,

that tastes like the dusty grain of house-walls

bordering the street.

Let her have the woven rug red and blue

beneath her real feet.

Let her have the pot, and the wooden ladle,

and the quiet, happy ticking of a clock she no longer

notices.

Let her have the common bird singing from the olive

and the sound of a door opening as it should.



And let me have my farm.

Let me have small clouds of breath

as I rise into the winter house.

Let me have a fallen maple for firewood

and the fire itself an eager bed of coals.

Let me have bowls of oatmeal and cups of tea

sweetened with honey

steaming on the enamel table.

Let me have my husband pulling on boots

to plant potatoes, while the moon

rests in the sign for roots.

Let me have brown eggs

still warm from the hens.

Let me have the common bird singing from the oak

and the sound of a door opening as it should.

 
 
 
How does it linked to ghost of history?   I am not sure.   But over the last few days, caring for the ewes, I felt something primitive and fulfilling.  I never cared for sheep before, and yet, it came naturally, like reconnecting with something ancient. Its all very sensual, the warm, soft nose poking your hands for grain, the smell,   my hands, usually very dry from gardening, softened by the lanolin coating the wool.  The human spirit is wandering the earth, looking for a home to which it has set fired.  We built up for ourselves cities, metropolis, which are so far from what we were biologically designed to live in, to what we need to be sated spiritually.  It seems we do not know anymore how to put our ghosts to rest, how to find peace.  
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #7 - 08/23/06 at 14:25:20
 
Actually I think any sensible and sensitive people all over the world would and should agree with you that The obvious and popular understanding of how life should be ordered and lived should be mutually beneficial to all.
TThey will also agree that there is a fundamental ‘Laws of Humanature which cannot be denied and that its common to all party concerned.; and these Laws are the bases of morality, the bases of culture, the bases of civilization, and above all it is the bases of safety and of security.’ The Law sanctions ones act  (of the Leaders/Generals/Church/Religious fundamentalist to act in and for the self interest of the city/nation/religion/ corporation.  
 
But when it comes to implanting it gets bogged down to principles.
 
Some of the leading principles but insurmountable one as follows:-  
'Human nature is both fundamentally benign and dynamic.'  
And as I said: “I certainly feel that how one decides to view it will in one sense or another impact ones relationship with others, and affect ones commitment to integrity, as well as ones attitude toward morality and all this will to some extent distort ones perception of truth.”
 So from Human nature we move to some concrete IDEAL before we try to contextualize it with the necessary violence and the Massive, massive amount of Self-destructiveness all such concretizing portents.
Lets look at some witha Broad Brush:
1. One view (e.g., Machiavelli and Freud) holds that human nature is malign and that people are aggressive and untrustworthy. The state must exercise control over people.  
2.    Another view, typified by communism, holds that human nature is infinitely malleable according to the will of a powerful revolutionary leader or party.  
3-    The Fascist view, typified by Hitler, sees human nature as infinitely gullible and credulous.  
4.    On the Margins you have Anarchists view human nature as benign but not as infinitely malleable or gullible. People will do the right thing if government does not get in the way.  
 
But now lets for present take the Anarchists Stance.
Anarchists stress the importance of cooperation rather than competition, arguing that the former ensures the survival and progress of the human species.  
1.      Peter Kropotkin argues in Mutual Aid that all our actions must be guided by our sense of oneness with each other. The principle of mutual support and defense is deeply rooted in all living things.  
2.      Competition is injurious to the species and should be avoided.  
3.      Anarchists call for cooperative forms of organization based not on hierarchy or other forms of authority but on shared interests.  
 
The Anarchist views are based of several unnatural but necessary assumptions and few of them are:
Anarchists view the state as a repressive and illegitimate institution that obstructs social progress.  
For some, all coercive power is evil and destructive, whether wielded by an authoritarian or a democratic regime. Where as according to Others, the tyranny of a majority is worse than the tyranny of a dictator.  
On the other hand, The Communists hold, by contrast, that the proletariat needs the state in order to consolidate its own domination and defeat the bourgeoisie.  
A possible hybrid mix o the two above gives rise to some compelling as well as some absurd conclusions.  
For Example:
Individual liberty cannot exist without social and economic equality.  
1.      Freedom is incomplete without economic opportunity.  
2.      Freedom is a positive, not a negative, concept. People must be given the economic opportunity they need in order to be free.  
 
But can these do Tango beyond their own Selfish opportunism.  
For example we know that Marx sees violence as a legitimate instrument to use in attacking the bourgeois state, as bourgeois state would inevitably used it and will use it when ever they can.
Anarchists reject the Marxist principle that any means are justified to attain a revolutionary end.  
But there are some anarchists who actually endorse violent methods, but most insist on the relationship between means and ends.  
According to Some, the means must be identical in spirit and tendency with the ends sought.
 
But there are Ghost, Sprites that hover and seek their ways out in you, infact you are a Ghost…all you are and can ever Be is  Ghost…They wait, they Laugh, and make a mockery of the best of our attempts…infact all attempts are often tricks of such Ghostly nesting’s.
 
DEMONS -Pushkin
 
Spinning storm clouds, rushing storm clouds,
Hazy skies, a hazy night,
And a furtive moon that slyly
Sets the flying snow alight.
 
On we drive... The waste is boundless,
Nameless plains skim past, and hills.
Gripped by fear, I sit unmoving...
Tink-tink-tinkle go the bells.
 
"Coachman, come, wake up!.." "The horses
They are weary, sir, and slow;
As for me, I'm nearly blinded
By this blasted wind and snow!
 
There's no road in sight, so help me;
What to do?.. We've lost our way.
It's the demon that has got us
And is leading us astray.
 
"Look! He's close; he plays and teases,
Blows and spits, and, all unseen,
With a laugh our horses pushes
To the edge of a ravine.
 
Now he'll rise, a giant milepost,
Straight before me; now, a spark,
Flash and gleam, and, sinking, vanish
Of a sudden in the dark."
 
Spinning storm clouds, rushing storm clouds,
Hazy skies, a hazy night,
And a furtive moon that slyly
Sets the flying snow alight.
 
Spent from circling round, the horses
Jerk and stop... The bells go dead.
"That a stump or wolf?" "Yer Honor,
I don't rightly see ahead."
 
Loud the snowstorm weeps and rages,
And the horses snort in fright.
O'er the plain the demon prances,
In the murk his eyes glow bright.
 
Off the horses start a'shudder,
And the bells go ting-a-ling...
Demons, demons without number
Gather round us in a ring.
 
In the eerie play of moonlight
They grimace, they wail and call,
Whirling, leaping, dancing madly
Like the windswept leaves of fall.
 
Why are they so wild, so restless?
Why so weird the sounds they make?
Could this be a witch's wedding?
Could this be a goblin's wake?
 
Spinning storm clouds, rushing storm clouds,
Hazy skies, a hazy night,
And a furtive moon that slyly
Sets the flying snow alight.
 
Skyward soar the whirling demons,
Shrouded by the falling snow,
And their plaintive, awful howling
Fills my heart with dread and woe.
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #8 - 08/23/06 at 15:22:08
 
Quote from mark on 08/23/06 at 14:25:20:
But when it comes to implanting it gets bogged down to principles.

 
Yes!! Or worst, the principles become frozen into dogmas and the dogmas are no longer at the service of humanity, but humanity becomes fodder to the dogmas, like in totalitarian states, big machines swallowing people. This hellish vision has been masterfully described by Dante, when he reaches the Last Circle of the Inferno: Lucifer, his legs immobilized in ice, devouring sinners.  So much like this beautiful Puskin poem which has so many resonances with Dante's Hell.  
 
Inferno: Canto XXXIV  
 
 
"'Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni'
  Towards us; therefore look in front of thee,"
  My Master said, "if thou discernest him."  
 
As, when there breathes a heavy fog, or when
  Our hemisphere is darkening into night,
  Appears far off a mill the wind is turning,  
 
Methought that such a building then I saw;
  And, for the wind, I drew myself behind
  My Guide, because there was no other shelter.  
 
Now was I, and with fear in verse I put it,
  There where the shades were wholly covered up,
  And glimmered through like unto straws in glass.  
 
Some prone are lying, others stand erect,
  This with the head, and that one with the soles;
  Another, bow-like, face to feet inverts.  
 
When in advance so far we had proceeded,
  That it my Master pleased to show to me
  The creature who once had the beauteous semblance,  
 
He from before me moved and made me stop,
  Saying: "Behold Dis, and behold the place
  Where thou with fortitude must arm thyself."  
 
How frozen I became and powerless then,
  Ask it not, Reader, for I write it not,
  Because all language would be insufficient.  
 
I did not die, and I alive remained not;
  Think for thyself now, hast thou aught of wit,
  What I became, being of both deprived.  
 
The Emperor of the kingdom dolorous
  From his mid-breast forth issued from the ice;
  And better with a giant I compare  
 
Than do the giants with those arms of his;
  Consider now how great must be that whole,
  Which unto such a part conforms itself.  
 
Were he as fair once, as he now is foul,
  And lifted up his brow against his Maker,
  Well may proceed from him all tribulation.  
 
O, what a marvel it appeared to me,
  When I beheld three faces on his head!
  The one in front, and that vermilion was;  
 
Two were the others, that were joined with this
  Above the middle part of either shoulder,
  And they were joined together at the crest;  
 
And the right-hand one seemed 'twixt white and yellow;
  The left was such to look upon as those
  Who come from where the Nile falls valley-ward.  
 
Underneath each came forth two mighty wings,
  Such as befitting were so great a bird;
  Sails of the sea I never saw so large.  
 
No feathers had they, but as of a bat
  Their fashion was; and he was waving them,
  So that three winds proceeded forth therefrom.  
 
Thereby Cocytus wholly was congealed.
  With six eyes did he weep, and down three chins
  Trickled the tear-drops and the bloody drivel.  
 
At every mouth he with his teeth was crunching
  A sinner, in the manner of a brake,
  So that he three of them tormented thus.  
 
To him in front the biting was as naught
  Unto the clawing, for sometimes the spine
  Utterly stripped of all the skin remained.  
 
"That soul up there which has the greatest pain,"
  The Master said, "is Judas Iscariot;
  With head inside, he plies his legs without.  
 
Of the two others, who head downward are,
  The one who hangs from the black jowl is Brutus;
  See how he writhes himself, and speaks no word.  
 
And the other, who so stalwart seems, is Cassius.
  But night is reascending, and 'tis time
  That we depart, for we have seen the whole."  
 
As seemed him good, I clasped him round the neck,
  And he the vantage seized of time and place,
  And when the wings were opened wide apart,  
 
He laid fast hold upon the shaggy sides;
  From fell to fell descended downward then
  Between the thick hair and the frozen crust.  
 
When we were come to where the thigh revolves
  Exactly on the thickness of the haunch,
  The Guide, with labour and with hard-drawn breath,  
 
Turned round his head where he had had his legs,
  And grappled to the hair, as one who mounts,
  So that to Hell I thought we were returning.  
 
"Keep fast thy hold, for by such stairs as these,"
  The Master said, panting as one fatigued,
  "Must we perforce depart from so much evil."  
 
Then through the opening of a rock he issued,
  And down upon the margin seated me;
  Then tow'rds me he outstretched his wary step.  
 
I lifted up mine eyes and thought to see
  Lucifer in the same way I had left him;
  And I beheld him upward hold his legs.  
 
And if I then became disquieted,
  Let stolid people think who do not see
  What the point is beyond which I had passed.  
 
"Rise up," the Master said, "upon thy feet;
  The way is long, and difficult the road,
  And now the sun to middle-tierce returns."  
 
It was not any palace corridor
  There where we were, but dungeon natural,
  With floor uneven and unease of light.  
 
"Ere from the abyss I tear myself away,
  My Master," said I when I had arisen,
  "To draw me from an error speak a little;  
 
Where is the ice? and how is this one fixed
  Thus upside down? and how in such short time
  From eve to morn has the sun made his transit?"  
 
And he to me: "Thou still imaginest
  Thou art beyond the centre, where I grasped
  The hair of the fell worm, who mines the world.  
 
That side thou wast, so long as I descended;
  When round I turned me, thou didst pass the point
  To which things heavy draw from every side,  
 
And now beneath the hemisphere art come
  Opposite that which overhangs the vast
  Dry-land, and 'neath whose cope was put to death  
 
The Man who without sin was born and lived.
  Thou hast thy feet upon the little sphere
  Which makes the other face of the Judecca.  
 
Here it is morn when it is evening there;
  And he who with his hair a stairway made us
  Still fixed remaineth as he was before.  
 
Upon this side he fell down out of heaven;
  And all the land, that whilom here emerged,
  For fear of him made of the sea a veil,  
 
And came to our hemisphere; and peradventure
  To flee from him, what on this side appears
  Left the place vacant here, and back recoiled."  
 
A place there is below, from Beelzebub
  As far receding as the tomb extends,
  Which not by sight is known, but by the sound  
 
Of a small rivulet, that there descendeth
  Through chasm within the stone, which it has gnawed
  With course that winds about and slightly falls.  
 
The Guide and I into that hidden road
  Now entered, to return to the bright world;
  And without care of having any rest  
 
We mounted up, he first and I the second,
  Till I beheld through a round aperture
  Some of the beauteous things that Heaven doth bear;  
 
Thence we came forth to rebehold the stars.

 
 
 

 
 
I dont know if you are familiar with Norse mythology, but here a succinct version of their prophecy of the End of time:
Quote:
Ragnarok
by Micha F. Lindemans
Ragnarok ("Doom of the Gods"), also called Gotterdammerung, means the end of the cosmos in Norse mythology. It will be preceded by Fimbulvetr, the winter of winters. Three such winters will follow each other with no summers in between. Conflicts and feuds will break out, even between families, and all morality will disappear. This is the beginning of the end.
The wolf Skoll will finally devour the sun, and his brother Hati will eat the moon, plunging the earth [into] darkness. The stars will vanish from the sky. The c*o*c*k Fjalar will crow to the giants and the golden c*o*c*k Gullinkambi will crow to the gods. A third c*o*c*k will raise the dead.

The earth will shudder with earthquakes, and every bond and fetter will burst, freeing the terrible wolf Fenrir. The sea will rear up because Jormungand, the Midgard Serpent, is twisting and writhing in fury as he makes his way toward the land. With every breath, Jormungand will stain the soil and the sky with his poison. The waves caused by the serpent's emerging will set free the ship Naglfar, and with the giant Hymir as their commander, the giants will sail towards the battlefield. From the realm of the dead a second ship will set sail, and this ship carries the inhabitants of hell, with Loki as their helmsman. The fire giants, led by the giant Surt, will leave Muspell in the south to join against the gods. Surt, carrying a sword that blazes like the sun itself, will scorch the earth.

Meanwhile, Heimdall will sound his horn, calling the sons of Odin and the heroes to the battlefield. From all the corners of the world, gods, giants, dwarves, demons and elves will ride towards the huge plain of Vigrid ("battle shaker") where the last battle will be fought. Odin will engage Fenrir in battle, and Thor will attack Jormungand. Thor will victorious, but the serpent's poison will gradually kill the god of thunder. Surt will seek out the swordless Freyr, who will quickly succumb to the giant. The one-handed Tyr will fight the monstrous hound Garm and they will kill each other. Loki and Heimdall, age-old enemies, will meet for a final time, and neither will survive their encounter. The fight between Odin and Fenrir will rage for a long time, but finally Fenrir will seize Odin and swallow him. Odin's son Vidar will at once leap towards the wolf and kill him with his bare hands, ripping the wolf's jaws apart.

Then Surt will fling fire in every direction. The nine worlds will burn, and friends and foes alike will perish. The earth will sink into the sea.

After the destruction, a new and idyllic world will arise from the sea and will be filled with abundant supplies. Some of the gods will survive, others will be reborn. Wickedness and misery will no longer exist and gods and men will live happily together. The descendants of Lif and Lifthrasir will inhabit this earth.

Ragnarök does not mean "Twilight of the Gods"; that phrase is the result of a famous mistranslation. "Ragnarökr" or "Ragnarøkr" means "doom of the powers" or "destruction of the powers" (where "powers" means "gods").

 
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #9 - 08/23/06 at 16:02:35
 
Thanks Marie, those are so beautiful verse, such subtlety, such penetrating insight.
I doubt it can make any sense without reading Virgil last 4 pages from his epic…Its enigmatic and Paradoxal that Virgil should jog the memory of Dante that at that very spot Lucifer landed when hurled out of heaven…The Frozen Heart…a lack of emotional intelligence, a intelligence which the Ghost of Virgil stands for and only It can lead him through as there is no way the river Lethe that holds all the memory of sin can capture Vargils spirit.
 
'Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni'  
 
 
 
 
pn:Marie Have you read Plato’s Phaedrus..In it he more then 1000 years before Dante showed how the beautiful  brings about a recognition, a turning in times of utter hopelessness, a hope which guidesand leads men out into the openfeilds of Being.
He completes what he began in the last chapter of the Republic inSymposium by listining to Diotima on how wholeness is achieved and just when man looses his essential connectedness he recovers it via the lure of the Beautiful via the Neo-Platonic virtues of compassion, self- sacrifice, gentleness, faithfulness, devotion and love and thus transform the human heart in a fallen world.
 
Diotima also inspired Friedrich Hoelderlin in a vision to write the poetic epic 'Hyperion'.  
 
"But where danger is,  
grows
The saving power also."
- Hölderlin
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #10 - 08/24/06 at 09:05:26
 
Hello Mark,
 
I will confess that the only thing I read from Plato were the Dialogues, long time ago, which I found so arid that I never ventured farther.  Which seems to be a shame. embarrassed.  I was more attracted to the Greek Theater, so I have been through Aristophanes, Sophocles, Aeschilus and Euripides.   Aeschilus was my favorite. And I have vivid memories of looking at the Dyonisus theater from the Acropoles,  imagining Orestias played there for the first time. Talk about ghosts!!  
 
You know, thought I have a French translation of it, I did not get around to read the Aeneid.   And I never meditate on the symbolism of Virgil, except as a guide to Dante.  It's a great observation you made.  I'll have to save the Aeneid for later, as I am in a steep learning curve with a boat load of technical readings on sheep and chicken.  The ghosts will have to wait a bit for my attention because the livings take up all my time.   Wink. Virgil second work, the Georgics, would be more in my alley these days, with a lyrical description of the rural life. Augustus, after the devastation of the countryside by the civil war, asked him to write something praising agriculture.   It is didactic, but it is also full of a sensuality which has disapeared from modern treatises on farming.  
 
Quote:
Above the lone Parnassian steep; I love
To walk the heights, from whence no earlier track
Slopes gently downward to Castalia's spring.
Now, awful Pales, strike a louder tone.
First, for the sheep soft pencotes I decree
To browse in, till green summer's swift return;
And that the hard earth under them with straw
And handfuls of the fern be littered deep,
Lest chill of ice such tender cattle harm
With scab and loathly foot-rot. Passing thence
I bid the goats with arbute-leaves be stored,
And served with fresh spring-water, and their pens
Turned southward from the blast, to face the suns
Of winter, when Aquarius' icy beam
Now sinks in showers upon the parting year.
These too no lightlier our protection claim,
Nor prove of poorer service, howsoe'er
Milesian fleeces dipped in Tyrian reds
Repay the barterer; these with offspring teem
More numerous; these yield plenteous store of milk:
The more each dry-wrung udder froths the pail,
More copious soon the teat-pressed torrents flow.
Ay, and on Cinyps' bank the he-goats too
Their beards and grizzled chins and bristling hair
Let clip for camp-use, or as rugs to wrap
Seafaring wretches. But they browse the woods
And summits of Lycaeus, and rough briers,
And brakes that love the highland: of themselves
Right heedfully the she-goats homeward troop
Before their kids, and with plump udders clogged
Scarce cross the threshold. Wherefore rather ye,
The less they crave man's vigilance, be fain
From ice to fend them and from snowy winds;
Bring food and feast them with their branchy fare,
Nor lock your hay-loft all the winter long.
But when glad summer at the west wind's call
Sends either flock to pasture in the glades,
Soon as the day-star shineth, hie we then
To the cool meadows, while the dawn is young,
The grass yet hoary, and to browsing herds
The dew tastes sweetest on the tender sward.

 
 
 
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Re: ghosts haunting history
Reply #11 - 08/24/06 at 10:11:56
 
About two weeks ago I went to Labrador, and I had the chance to talk with a Inuit.   The discussion turned to our ancestry, how through his ancestors, he had the Land in his bones for more at least  3000 years.  I was really the newcomer with my mere 350 years.  So many of the ghosts haunting my past are still in France.  The colonized and the colonizer sharing their sense of a place.  

 
 
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